i was a jw for 40 years.
although as an individual/cong/body of elders holy spirirt was prayed for, i cannot think of one moment when i thought..right now i have gods spirit acting upon me.
it was never described adequately for me to completely understand and i suspect that others felt the same, yet everyone talked as though they knew exactly how it worked.
I was a JW for 40 years. Although as an individual/cong/body of elders holy spirirt was prayed for, i cannot think of one moment when I thought..right now I have Gods spirit acting upon me.
It was never described adequately for me to completely understand and I suspect that others felt the same, yet everyone talked as though they knew exactly how it worked. Was I the only one? Did you ever 'know' when you were under the influence of The Holy Spirit?
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i'd like to get comments from people about whether and how much they were shocked, surprised, or otherwise bothered by the watchtower society's becoming an associated non-governmental organization (ngo).. note that i'd like to see these comments because they might lead to some interesting publicity, so please comment accordingly.. alanf
I wrote to the society last year about this and the standard letter was sent back to me which as we know contained 2 lies...1. They didnt need to become an NGO to access the library and 2. the criteria has not changed...as they said it had. Recently i was asked by a 'wavering' friend to provide him with the info on the UN. I duly obliged..being careful only to give him documents from WTS and the UN ...nothing which could be considered apostate.
He took it to 2 elders in the cong, one of whom i work with...one day a week. I will say that he has been a good friend to me and i have said things to him which could put me before a judicial...but he has kept my confidences. However, we had a discussion the next time i worked with him and his response was so typical of a zealous witness. I said to him that the proof was there (i had even underlined the salient points) and he turned round and said he knew who he PREFERRED to believe! I asked him what axe the UN had to grind against the society so that they would fabricate a story and he didnt answer.
It has been said before though that even if you confront Witnesses with concrete evidence and they do not want to leave the truth, it forces them deeper into their holes and you will not get them out.
Steve
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the latest episode of dr who really made me laugh - the bbc script writers made some quite subtle but pointed digs at the government wo had previously 'won' (unfairly) after appointing their own judge as to whether the bbc or the government lied about iraq.. the pm got killed.. downing street got destroyed because of aliens with .... weapons of mass destruction that could be launched in 45 minutes seconds (which in the end turned out not to exist).
brilliant.
Am i the only person in the world who thinks that Dr Who is crap!! Maybe i just dont get it (got that in before you did) but i hated when i was a youngster...except for the daleks...how to get away from a dalek..run up the stairs.
Is this a pantomime..something for the kids...something for the adults...Billy Pipers mother is a sex starved bimbo..who wants Who to get in the sack with her the moment she sees him...if its for kids...Why on earth put scene like that in the first episode?...totally irrelevant and hardly entertaining for the grown ups!
Also..Billy Piper is downcast for all of one nano second when she believes her boyfriend has been swallowed by a wheelie bin and is dead. The next scene she is gleefully running along with the DR with a big smile on her face.
It doesnt work on any level with me...Its not funny..its not realistic...its devoid of any intelligent ideas...It is pretty pathetic! And no..i havent watched it since the first episode..which was cringeworthy IMHO.
Maybe I wouldnt feel this way if everybody hadnt raved about it and a whole night was spent previewing it on some channel.
I dont know...maybe i was dropped on my head as a baby
in my opinion (for the sake of sixofnine and his propensity toward apoplexy):.
it seems to me that while there are many issues that we could address regarding the watchtower bible and tract society/governing body/congregation of jehovah's witnesses, there is one that stands out as uniquely given to ease of communication.
i would like to take this opportunity to state which issue and why, then invite open commentary.. the issue of the watchtower bible and tract society attaching itself to the un/dpi.. while i readily agree that this is minor in importance compared to matters like child molestation and failed prophecy, i see this as the easiest to bring up, the easiest to substantiate, and the easiest to demonstrate long-term gross error in.
I wrote a letter to the society querying the UN thing and also told them about my breakdown and my faith being in tatters and they sent me the standard letter they sent to the branches! No concern about my spiritual welfare or even a wish for my recovery..just the bog standard letter! So i have their own confession on society headed notepaper.
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i've always thought that it was a rotten trick for god to create us with free will and then punish us for using it.. wha'd'ya think?
| So what is it that the starving or molested children have sown...to reap what they are reaping? |
since i am still active (somewhat).
i have not read the book and you know what the org says about it.
will crisis of conscience surely send me into a tailspin?
People quit smoking in a number of various ways....some go cold turkey....some wear patches...some do hynotherapy...some reduce the amount smoked..daily or weekly.
You cannot just state...Go cold turkey or otherwise you are not worth even bothering about. It worked for you...well maybe it did...but we are not all the same...we dont all have strengths in the same department. To suggest that people are weak willed and ought to get their act together and think for themselves i think shows a lack of understanding of humanity.
We are all different, having different experiences...backgrounds..genes...which mould our personalities and make us who we are.
So, like quitting smoking.... for some...CoC is unnecessary..for others, an affirmation and a reinforcing of what they already thought...for others a complete revelation...it may be just what they do NEED to help them make a decision. As someone said...it is just a book..there is no merit in not reading it as though we have some special strength which elevates us above the poor unfortunates who 'have' to read it to 'help' them. They may have strengths in areas where we are lacking...such as empathy and compassion...unless of course..we consider those qualities to be signs of weakness.....
Rant over....Steve
for anyone who is a catholic stop reading now - i'm about to mini vent.
i don't doubt that the recently departed pope had many redeeming qualities and this post has nowt to do with him as a person.
i cannot get away from the fact that the pomp and ceremony of the catholic church (including the regalia) is so far away from the humble woodcarvers son and his example.
What got to me was the commentary from priests and nuns and the like in the TV studios..
'Theres a tradition that anyone who dies within 8 days of Easter (i think it was) flies to heaven on the back of the risen Christ' What????????!!!!
'This kind, caring, gentle, smiling face of one of the most saintly of men'...pass the sick bag. Was he so caring about all the paedophile priests victims....
If you read the book 'In God's Name by David Yallop, @ 1984.....you get a bit of a different perspective on this 'wonderful' man, what he allowed and knew about that was taking place in the Catholic Church.
Ive no doubt he did some good things in his life...he has been accredited with being highly instrumental in the fall of communism for instance....but to be revered like some sort of GOD...it is nauseating.
Watching those world leaders, bored out of their heads..though trying not to look it....oh alright, Bush did and didnt care..or wasnt aware I got the feeling that it was just one big irritant as they had plenty of more important things they could do on a friday...maybe get married for instance
since i am still active (somewhat).
i have not read the book and you know what the org says about it.
will crisis of conscience surely send me into a tailspin?
Its not actually about..failings , flaws...or weaknesses in people or conversely, their goodness...or whether there is good in it. Its about TRUTH..Is it THE TRUTH?
For instance...The Watchtower states that the Good news of the Kingdom is the news that Christ took up invisible kingship in the heavens in 1914 CE. That is the central core message that JWs preach around the world today. If 1914 is proved by FACTS to be wrong, then the whole message is wrong unless God is quite happy to allow UNTRUTH to be preached for all these years.... So try proving that the starting point for the calculation of 1914...607 BCE is the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem. Better still, read the WT own calculations at http://quotes.watchtower.ca/607bce.htm and i believe you will only come to one conclusion.
Also I suggest you read Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron. These guys arent focussing on peoples imperfections...but on cold hard facts.
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just got my copy of crisis of conscience.
*puts on vivaldi, finds eyeglasses, sits down with a fresh cup of coffee, buckles seatbelt, opens book* introduction...... (see you guys in a couple days...).
I finished it one sunday morning.....late 2003. I was so angry and then i cried my eyes out for a number of reasons.....i had been betrayed and my trust completely shattered. I knew that my life was about to change drastically. And 40 years of my life had been spent trying desperately to live up to all THEIR standards so that I'd get through Armageddon and never feeling that i would ever qualify...i just wasnt good enough...
Those of you who have not read this book....beg, steal,borrow....just get it
this in it's entirety from the watchtower may 15, 2005, page 31. you might find the reasoning a bit hollow.
questions from readers.
why were david and bath-sheba not put to death for committing adultery, whereas their newborn son died?.
David was king...so he was above the law...well...being judged by human judges anyway...God judged him and because he was repentant...he got away with it.
Pity all those common Israelite peasants wha had a repentant heart but who had the bad fortune to be tried by the human judges. "We dont give a damn if you're sorry, Gods law states... an eye for an eye....take him away and give him a good stoning!"
So this is the principle elders follow with their kids and the publishers kids!
